Meet the Press - August 16, 2020

CHUCK TODD:

This Sunday, the new Democratic ticket.

JOE BIDEN:

She's ready to do the job on day one.

CHUCK TODD:

Joe Biden picks his running mate.

JOE BIDEN:

The next vice president of the United states, Kamala Harris.

CHUCK TODD:

The first woman of color ever on a national ticket.

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS:

We need a mandate that proves that the past few years do not represent who we are or what we aspire to be.

CHUCK TODD:

The Trump campaign struggling to find a consistent line of attack.

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

She left angry. She left mad. There was nobody more insulting to Biden than she was.

CHUCK TODD:

How will this ticket fare with progressive Democrats? This morning, my interview with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Plus: Our brand new NBC News - Wall Street Journal poll on the eve of the Democratic National Convention. Also, as COVID relief talks break down --

REP. NANCY PELOSI:

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gave a damn.

CHUCK TODD:

-- President Trump says: No deal? No new Postal Service funding for mail-in voting --

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

It's very simple. How are they going to do it if they don't have the money to do it?

CHUCK TODD:

-- prompting charges that he is sabotaging mail-in voting to help his re-election chances.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA:

What we've never seen before is a president saying I'm going to try to kneecap the Postal Service.

CHUCK TODD:

And as President Trump struggles at home, he secures a big agreement in the Middle East. I'll talk to National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Kasie Hunt, former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, NBC News correspondent Carol Lee and Charles Benson, from our NBC affiliate in convention city Milwaukee. Welcome to Sunday and our coverage of the Democratic National Convention, it's Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:

From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.

CHUCK TODD:

Good Sunday morning. Normally, on the Sunday before a national political convention, we’d be inside a sports arena right now, anticipating cheering crowds, boisterous protests and even anticipating colorful balloon drops. But not this year, not before this week's unconventional Democratic convention, nominally in Milwaukee or next week's Republican gathering, somewhere in America. This year's conventions, like everything else, have been upended by COVID-19. One thing that has not changed here, though, is the pre-convention naming of a running mate, with Joe Biden picking the odds-on favorite for the role, Senator Kamala Harris of California. Biden and Harris will try to do something that has not been accomplished since 1992, defeat a sitting president. And they begin with a bit of a head start. Our brand news NBC News - Wall Street Journal poll, half of which was taken after the Harris news, shows Joe Biden with a nine point lead over President Trump among registered voters, 50 to 41. While, that's down a bit from Biden's 11 point lead last month, overall the numbers look pretty stable when you look at this race over the entire summer. But interestingly, among Biden voters, only 36 percent say their vote is more for Biden, while nearly 60 percent say they're voting primarily against Mr. Trump. Overall, interest in this election is extraordinarily high, 79 percent of all voters, right now in August, 83 percent of Democrats, 85 percent of Republicans but all of these voters right now in August say they're highly interested in this election. Folks, those are October numbers normally. The bottom line from our Republican and Democratic pollsters is this: While President Trump needs to pull another inside straight to win, this election is not yet a done deal for Biden. And all this past week, the president made it clear that he's willing to hobble the Postal Service and imperil mail-in voting, which,of course, he fears will help the Democrats in November.

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

Universal mail-in voting is going to be catastrophic, make our country a laughingstock all over the world

CHUCK TODD:

The Postal Service inspector general is examining changes made by Trump appointee and donor Louis DeJoy, after an urgent warning to dozens of states that it cannot guarantee all mail-in ballots will be counted. In an internal memo on Thursday - DeJoy acknowledged "unintended consequences" to service, arguing cuts were necessary because "our financial condition is dire."

KELLY O’DONNELL

Is he trying to discourage mail-in voting? Are you trying to discourage --

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

No, not at all the steps that he's taken are trying to stop the tremendous losses that have taken place for many, many years. He's trying to streamline the post office and make it great again.

CHUCK TODD:

Mr. Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that mail ballots lead to widespread voter fraud - although he and Melania have requested mail-in ballots in Florida.

SEN. MITT ROMNEY:

I’ve heard some people say that they think the reason the president doesn’t want people to vote by mail is that polls show that people who want to vote by mail tend to vote for Vice President Biden. And so this is a political calculation.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA:

What we've never seen before is a president say, ‘I'm going to try to actively kneecap the Postal Service to encourage voting, and I will be explicit about the reason I'm doing it.'"

CHUCK TODD:

Meanwhile - President Trump is struggling to respond to the Biden-Harris ticket -- who are hammering his handling of the virus - which 58% of voters disapprove of.

JOE BIDEN:

Let's institute a mask mandate nationwide, starting immediately. And we will save lives

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS:

When other countries are following the science, Trump pushed miracle cures he saw on Fox News.

CHUCK TODD:

And Mr. Trump and his campaign are struggling to define Harris, the Republican National Committee argued “liberals revolt against Biden, Harris ticket.” --

TIM MURTAUGH:

She's gonna have to hide her time as a prosecutor from the anti-police left.

CHUCK TODD:

-- before saying her pick "shows radical extremists have seized control of the Democratic party."

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

She’s radical left. Now she tries to pretend she’s not, but she’s the most liberal person in the US Senate

CHUCK TODD:

The president called Harris "nasty", a "madwoman" and he is renewing the racist "birther" conspiracy theory he pushed for years about President Obama.

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

I heard it today that she doesn't meet the requirements. And, by the way, the lawyer that wrote that piece is a very highly qualified, very talented lawyer. I have no idea if that's right. He wrote an article saying there could be a problem. It's not something that I'm going to be pursuing.

CHUCK TODD:

Harris was born in Oakland, California.

CHUCK TODD:

And joining me now is the independent senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press. And while this is a convention Sunday and we want to talk a little bit about the campaign, I want to start with the Postal Service. You've spent a lot of time in your career fighting on behalf of the Postal Service in different ways, fighting to make sure stuff doesn't get cut. So, this is a topic you are well versed in. So, let me ask you this about what we're seeing right now. On one hand, the United States Postal Service is telling states they can't handle the increased capacity of mail-in voting. On the other hand, we've got reports of sorting machines going away, no more overtime. What are we witnessing here, Senator Sanders? Legitimate reform of the Postal Service or sabotage?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, Chuck, what you are witnessing is a president of the United States who is doing everything he can to suppress the vote, make it harder for people to engage in mail-in balloting at a time when people will be putting their lives on the line by having to go out to a polling station and vote. So, what Trump is saying is, "We're going to do everything we can." And this is not me talking. This is what Trump, himself, said. Look, I happen to think, as you know, that Trump is a pathological liar. He lies all of the time, but I've got to say, I’ve got to admit that the other day he was very honest. He said, "Look, we want to kill mail-in balloting. We don't want millions and millions of people to be able to cast their ballots through the mail, so we'll destroy the Postal Service. We'll defund it. They can't vote." I guess that he thinks that a suppressed vote, a lower voter turnout, will work for him and that it will help him win the election. So, this is a deliberate effort to defund and destroy the U.S. Postal Service so that people cannot engage in mail-in ballots. That's not Bernie Sanders talking. That's what Donald Trump is telling the American people. And it is an outrage, Chuck, because this campaign is more than healthcare, it's more than education, it's more than the Postal Service. It is democracy and he is sabotaging our democracy.

CHUCK TODD:

I think the question now is what does Congress do? What can you do? The House is -- you're hearing some word that the House Democratic leadership is thinking about bringing the House back early to deal directly with this Postal Service crisis. Do you think that's a good idea? And do you want to see Senator Mitch McConnell do the same thing?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Absolutely. No, I think what the Democratic leadership in the House, Nancy Pelosi, and others are talking about is exactly right. This, again, is not a debate about the Postal Service alone. That's important. This is about the future of American democracy and whether people have a right to participate. Chuck, just last week, earlier this week, here in Vermont, we had our primaries. We had the largest voter turnout in primaries in Vermont history. Most of the people voted by mail-in ballot. It worked just fine. We could do this in every state in this country. So, I would urge Speaker Pelosi to bring back the House. We will do everything that we can to get McConnell to bring back the Senate. This is a crisis for American democracy. We have got to act and act now.

CHUCK TODD:

You know, your colleague, Brian Schatz in Hawaii, a Democrat from Hawaii, saw shades of Ukraine in here. He tweeted, "Trump messing with the Postal Service is more impeachable than the Ukraine thing, which was super impeachable. He's really going to try to cheat." I guess the question is what do you call what the president is doing when he said that he's hoping this lack of a deal on the Postal Service means no mail-in voting? What do you call it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

I call it undermining American democracy. And Chuck, what I hope is, I mean, everybody knows my political views. I am a strong progressive. But this campaign is not about whether you're progressive or a moderate or a conservative. This campaign, in the deepest sense, is whether we respect the sacrifices the men and women died in defending American democracy against a president who really quite openly is trying to undermine our democracy. And I hope the American people come together, progressives, moderates, conservatives, to say, "Sorry, Mr. President, we may have our disagreements, but in America, we are a democracy. Everybody is going to vote and we’re not going to let you get away with what you're doing."

CHUCK TODD:

What would you tell voters right now that want to vote by mail, but are nervous?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

I would tell them, look, the average voter is put in a very difficult position. You are more than familiar with the fact that there are states which have discouraged mail-in votes, urged people to come to the polling places. And some of those people have become sick. So, the average person is put in this terrible quagmire. "Yes, I want to vote. I want to participate in democracy, but I'm afraid to go out." The people who man the polling stations often are older people. They are afraid of spending an entire day dealing with other people who are voting. So, what I would say to people is stay tuned. In one way or another, we're going to make sure that the people of this country have the right to vote and Donald Trump is not going to undermine our democracy.

CHUCK TODD:

When you say stay tuned, what does that mean? I mean, do you really believe Congress can act to hamstring the president here?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, I was --

CHUCK TODD:

I mean he, he seems to control the --

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

We're going to do everything that we can, in every way that we can. And different states may respond differently, but this is an issue. This really is an issue where ideology should not get in the way. I don't care if you're a conservative, moderate, whatever you are. If you believe that people have a right to vote and in a pandemic should not have to put their lives on the line to go into a ballot -- into a polling station, you know what, you have to support the full funding of the Postal Service and make sure that people can participate.

CHUCK TODD:

All right, I want to talk about tomorrow night. You're speaking on the same night as John Kasich. First of all, what do you make of that, number one? And give us a preview of your speech, if you don't mind.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, only if you don't tell anybody, Chuck, all right? Just keep that between you and me, what my speech is. What I am going to be talking about are a couple of things. Number one, what I just referred to, is that this is a campaign about whether or not we maintain American democracy. We have a president -- it's not just the Postal Service. You will recall that not so long ago, Trump said, "Well, you know, maybe we should delay the election. I'm behind in the polls. Let's delay the election." And earlier than that, he said, "Well, you know, maybe if I lose, I may not want to leave office." This is a president who has used federal agents in unmarked cars to round up people exercising their constitutional right to protest. So, this is a campaign about democracy, but I'll tell you what else it is. Right now, as we speak, Chuck, and we don't talk about this enough, with 30 million people having lost their jobs since the pandemic, and since those $600 checks have ceased to come, what you are seeing all over this country is people in economic desperation. You're seeing people who today, in America, the richest country on Earth, unable to feed their kids, worrying about being evicted from their homes. You're seeing people who cannot pay their bills, who have no health insurance. What we are looking at is an absolute horror show. What Congress has got to do is not only fund the Postal Service, we have got to maintain those $600 checks. We've got to make sure that people get at least $1,200 to pay their bills. And obviously Trump and McConnell have done nothing in that regard.

CHUCK TODD:

Let me ask you about one aspect of the Democratic Party platform. There is one reference we could find to Medicare For All. I'm going to read it here. "We are proud our party welcomes advocates who want to build on and strengthen the Affordable Care Act and those who support a Medicare For All approach. All are critical to ensuring that healthcare is a human right." It is the only reference we could find to Medicare For All. How do you feel overall about the party platform? And do you feel like you've got enough of your views represented in it?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, Chuck, as you may be aware, I am not the candidate, so my views are not the dominant views. But what I will credit strongly the Biden campaign for is that Joe and I talked about this and he and I agreed that we should have task forces dealing with some of the major issues facing this country, including the economy and healthcare, climate change, immigration, education, et cetera. And the people on those task forces worked very, very hard. And I'm not here to tell you, as a strong advocate for Medicare For All, that we got everything we wanted. We surely did not. But I think if people look at the outcome of those task forces, they'll find the reality that if those task force proposals are implemented, you know what, Joe Biden will become the most progressive president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And that, in this moment, is what we need.

CHUCK TODD:

Kamala Harris, the pick of her, in many ways this is also Joe Biden's vision of the future of the Democratic party, a future -- perhaps a future president, perhaps a future nominee. Is she a future progressive leader of the Democratic party, in your mind?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, Chuck, all that I can say is that I think what almost all progressives understand, that in this moment we have got to do everything we can to come together to defeat Donald Trump, who in my view is the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country, and elect Joe Biden. But as I have said many, many times, the day after Biden is elected, we're going to be working with the grassroots in this country, with working people, with people of color, with young people, to stand up and fight for an agenda that works for working families, not just the 1%. And that most certainly includes Medicare For All. So, we're going to rally the American people around an agenda. And I look forward to doing that the day after Biden is elected.

CHUCK TODD:

Very quickly, in the state of Wisconsin, Kanye West is trying to get on the ballot. And one of his petition signatures that apparently right now is being used to get him on the ballot is by the name of a -- a gentleman by the name of Bernie Sanders. And it claims that you have signed this. Mickey Mouse also apparently signed these petition signatures. I just want to confirm that that is not you, sir, that signed a petition --

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Well, I cannot, I cannot confirm --

CHUCK TODD:

-- in Wisconsin to get Kanye West on the ballot.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

I cannot confirm Mickey Mouse. That I’m not -- don't know about, but I can tell you I certainly did not sign that petition.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. Senator Bernie Sanders, we look forward to hearing what you have to say tomorrow night. And again, how do you feel about sharing the stage with John Kasich?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Look, John will do his thing. I will do my thing. I expect they'll be different types of speeches, but we are united. We are united in the understanding that Trump has to be defeated and Biden has to be elected.

CHUCK TODD:

Okay. All right, Bernie Sanders, the progressive Independent senator from Vermont. The runner-up in this Democratic nomination fight that we all witnessed here. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective, sir.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:

Thank you.

CHUCK TODD:

When we come back, I'll talk to National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien about the big diplomatic development in the Middle East and about Russian election interference. Stick around.

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. From Joe Biden to Nancy Pelosi, the praise has been pretty universal. Last week, President Trump announced that Israel and the United Arab Emirates, also known as UAE, would establish full diplomatic relations, making the UAE only the third Arab state, after Egypt and Jordan, to officially recognize Israel. It was a significant achievement with broad implications for the Middle East and one of the many issues, among also the Russian interference in our elections, that I want to discuss with my next guest. So, joining me now is President Trump's National Security Adviser, Robert O'Brien. Ambassador O'Brien, it is good to have you on the program again. So, in announcing this agreement, you -- the president portrayed it as an icebreaker, if you will, for Israel to normalize relations with other countries in the region, particularly Gulf states. What kind of timeline should we expect? Is this months? Is this years? Who will be number four?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, thanks, Chuck. That's a great question. Super to be back with you, and let me answer it, but before I do, it's a little bit of a bittersweet weekend for the president. We had this remarkable accomplishment with the Abraham Accords, but he lost his brother, Robert, who he said was his best friend, yesterday. So, I just want to extend my condolences to the president, the first family, as they mourn Robert Trump's passing. But I'll tell you, last week was quite an accomplishment. It was the result of very hard diplomacy, much of it being quarterbacked by the president of the United States himself on calls with Bibi Netanyahu and Mohammed bin Zayed. He really pushed this over the finish line. But it took a lot of courage by the other leaders as well. As you indicated, there have only been three of these peace treaties since Israel's founding, so it's a historic accomplishment. We think that there's momentum for some additional parties to join and to normalize relations with Israel. We fanned out, as soon as this was announced, and have talked to -- I've been on the phone with leaders in the region, the president has, Jared Kushner has, Secretary Pompeo has. And so we're quite hopeful that we can build on this momentum. I can't give a timeline because these things are tough. You know, these are the toughest negotiations in the world, to broker peace between Israel and the Arab and Islamic world, but we're confident that we think there are a couple of other countries that are going to get on board soon and we're looking forward to that.

CHUCK TODD:

I'm curious, Saudi Arabia. Because they're the guardians, if you will, of some important religious aspects of Islam, do they end up the last, do you think, to publicly do it? Or could they be next?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Look, it's possible that they could be next. The three great holy sites in Islam, as you know, Chuck, are Mecca, Medina, and the king of Saudi Arabia is the keeper of those two sites. But the other site is the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and King Hussein of Jordan and Jordan supervises that. One of the great things about this agreement is you're now going to have direct flights from those fantastic airports, both in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, into Ben Gurion in Tel Aviv. And we're going to have Arab and Muslim pilgrims coming to Jerusalem and going up to the Mount and worshiping at the Al-Aqsa Mosque. And we think that's something that will be a great confidence builder. And so, I'm hoping that King Salman and MBS, Mohammed bin Salman, see that development and realize that this would be great for Saudi Arabia, it would be great for the Arab people and for the Islamic world as well. So, we're hopeful. We'll have to see what happens, but we're talking to a number of countries in addition to Saudi Arabia.

CHUCK TODD:

I'm curious, you know, there seems to be a little bit of, I don't know if it's an intentional misunderstanding or not. The UAE says they feel comfortable making this deal because Israel is not going to be doing annexation. Prime Minister Netanyahu has made it clear -- he made it clear this morning, in remarks this morning about this, that Israel did not have to pledge to do anything and did not have to pledge not to, perhaps, annex parts of the West Bank. Let me ask you this. Does the United States believe Israel is entitled to annex the West Bank?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, what we have said all along is that the contours of the West Bank have to be decided by negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And President Trump, in his vision for Middle East peace, put out a map, and that map was a starting point for negotiations. And we think the only way this can get decided and have lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is for them to come -- the Palestinians to come to the table, to introduce some negotiations. There are some facts on the ground. There are some settlements there that are durable and longstanding, and there may have to be some land swaps. That's something that's been considered all the way back to Oslo. But I think, in the meantime, we're pretty confident, the UAE is confident, that Israel will not unilaterally extend sovereignty or Israeli law to parts of the West Bank. And that's what part of this deal is about. But I understand Prime Minister Netanyahu's view that, ultimately, there are parts of the West Bank that Israel would like to have. There are probably other parts along those borders that the Palestinians would like to have. And that's why you have a negotiation, and I'm hopeful that this UAE deal with Israel, some of the other deals that could happen with Israel, will encourage the Palestinians to come to the table because we want a two-state solution, and we want to see the Palestinian GDP double. We want to see a great state of Palestine living in peace next to Israel. That would be fantastic.

CHUCK TODD:

Your loss at the U.N. on the extension of an arms embargo on Iran, and given how much the United -- how few allies the United States had on their side on this issue, do you at all look at this -- wouldn't the United States be in a better position to extend this embargo on Iran if they had remained in the Iran deal? Is that turning out to be a big diplomatic mistake?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

No, I think it was -- it’s exactly the opposite of that, Chuck. I think getting out of the JCPOA and showing our allies and partners in the region, who are terrified of a hegemonic Iran that received over $150 billion under the JCPOA in sanctions relief -- they didn't take that money to improve the lives of ordinary Iranians. They took that money and engaged in proxy wars in Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Yemen and other parts of the Middle East. And so, I think getting out of the JCPOA was the predicate for this fantastic deal between UAE and Israel. And look, the only people -- you know, you had Thomas Friedman coming out with an unqualified endorsement of the UAE-Israel deal, which I never thought I'd see President Trump being endorsed by Thomas Friedman on this deal, and David Ignatius and others. I think the only people that were against the deal were the Ayatollah and maybe Ben Rhodes. But this happened because we got out of the JCPOA, not because we should have stayed in it.

CHUCK TODD:

I want to move to the issue of Russian interference. It was kind of an alarming thing that the DNI put out that Russia is actively still involved in trying to denigrate the Democratic campaign in particular.

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Yeah.

CHUCK TODD:

The president likes to say, and you have said, that this administration somehow has been tougher on Russia than the last administration. So, let me ask you this, if you have, then why -- is it a policy failure that Russia is still interfering in our elections?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, I think the DNI report was really terrific. And what the DNI report did, which has not come out before, is it detailed the influence and the efforts of China and of Iran to denigrate President Trump and to make sure that he's not re-elected. It also talked about the Russian interference. As I've said, and as the president's made very clear, we're against every party -- foreign party trying to get involved in our elections, whether it's the communist Chinese, whether it's Putin's Russia, whether it's the theocracy in Iran. We want all of them to stay out of our election. And what we've done to make sure that happens is we've spent millions and millions of dollars hardening election infrastructure, working with 50 secretaries of states on cyber security. And we've also sent very strong messages to all these countries. With respect to Russia, I mean, we've put so many sanctions on Russia, there's almost nothing left to sanction. And we're making it very clear --

CHUCK TODD:

So, it's not working.

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, look, these are foreign powers that are adverse to the United States. We're in a period of great power competition. And look, Russia and China are on the other side. But what we've done is we've pushed back. Unlike the past administration, we've sent Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine when the past administration was sending them blankets and MREs. We've sanctioned Rosneft. We've done our best to stop Nord Stream 2, the pipeline from Russia to Germany, and have had tremendous success there. We've put sanctions on hundreds of Russians. We've closed their consulates in San Francisco and in Seattle. We've closed their diplomatic annex this year. We've expelled 60 Soviet -- or, Russian spies from the U.S. All of that was done under President Trump, not under the prior administration.

CHUCK TODD:

So then --

AMB. ROBERT O’BRIEN:

So, when we found out about what they're doing, we've stood up to them. And by the way, we've stood up to China in a big way, as you've seen as well. We're just not going to tolerate this.

CHUCK TODD:

Right. And I understand, it sounds like you're conflating -- China may be rooting against President Trump, but you don't seem to have the same amount of evidence as Russia. But let me ask something on Russia. --

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, I don't think that's --

CHUCK TODD:

You just talked about all of these things you've done --

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

I don't think that's true.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, we have no evidence. They released evidence about Russia. They have not released any of this evidence that you have said though, Ambassador. None of -- what you have said about China was not in that intel report made public. Are you going to make this Chinese stuff public?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, what the intel report said is that, is that there is information to suggest that they're doing that. What we're not going to do is release sensitive intelligence. So -- but if you believe the DNI on Russia, then you've got to believe them on Iran and China as well. So, the media can't --

CHUCK TODD:Right.

AMB. ROBERT O’BRIEN:

You know, it's not a cafeteria where you can go through and say, "I'll take this and not that." They've made it very clear -- and look, I'll come out today and say that there are other countries that would like to interfere in our elections as well beyond Russia, China, and Iran. And look, they have different preferences.

CHUCK TODD:

Right. One quick question though. If Russia is a bad actor, why does the president want a summit with Vladimir Putin in the United States before the election? Why reward Vladimir Putin with that if he is a bad actor in our democracy?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Well, we're not having a summit with Vladimir Putin before the election. In fact, Putin has floated --

CHUCK TODD:

Well, but he would like one, right?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

No, what Putin has floated is doing a P5 meeting with the P5 and Germany and Russia to try and bully the U.S. to go back --

CHUCK TODD:

So, the president doesn't want something here?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

No, we've rejected that. And it's not just Russia. What the Russians are proposing is a summit with Russia, Germany, Iran and the other P5 members to try and bully the U.S. back into this terrible JCPOA deal, which is the worst appeasement since Munich. And so we're not going to do that, and we're not doing it. Now, having said all that, we'd like to have better relations with Russia. We'd like to get an arms control deal with Russia. You know, when the Soviet Union was there and the evil empire was there, Ronald Reagan negotiated to try and reduce the nuclear weapons that are pointed at each country. We'd like to see that happen. We'd like to have good relations with Russia, but that's up to the Russians. As I've made it clear and as the president's made it clear, you know, they've got to decide how they want to move forward on this. We'd like to get an arms control deal with Russia that's safe for America --

CHUCK TODD:

So, the president, does he want --

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

-- and keeps us all safer.

CHUCK TODD:

So, the president has not asked for a meeting with Putin here in the United States?

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

No, we're not doing a meeting with Putin in the United States, but at some time, you know, look, we'd love to have Putin come here hopefully to sign a terrific arms control deal that protects Americans and protects Russians.

CHUCK TODD:

Ambassador Robert O'Brien, again, a huge week in the Middle East. I appreciate you coming on and sharing the president's perspective.

AMB. ROBERT O'BRIEN:

Thanks for having me, Chuck. Take care.

CHUCK TODD:

You got it. One note before we go to break. As Ambassador O'Brien mentioned earlier in the condolences that he passed along, we would like to acknowledge that the president did lose his younger brother, Robert Trump. He died yesterday. Robert was a big supporter of his older brother's candidacy, and he worked for the casino business with his older brother for a while. More recently, Robert was in the news as he joined the president's lawsuit against their niece, Mary, in an attempt to try to stop publication of her highly critical book of the president and his family. President Trump said in a statement, "He was not just my brother, he was my best friend." Robert Trump was 71. When we come back, it's been headline news all weekend long, including in the top battleground states. President Trump versus the Postal Service. Is this political gamble backfiring on the president? The panel is next.

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. Our panel is joining us from their remote locations: NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Kasie Hunt; Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson; NBC News correspondent Carol Lee; and Charles Benson, from our NBC affiliate WTMJ in Milwaukee. And, Charles, I'm going to let you get started because you're the only one in the convention city. The rest of us are not. Charles, is there a convention happening? How were the parties last night?

CHARLES BENSON:

Yeah, wish you could have been here. Milwaukee's a great place to be in the summertime. Look, everyone knows this is not the convention that Democrats wanted. However, it is the convention that they have decided to have. And what I mean by that is they believe this was the safe and smart decision, not to have a big convention. It is largely going to be an all-virtual convention. So we're not going to see the Democratic presidential nominee, Joe Biden, or his running mate, Senator Harris. We are going to see, expected to see President Trump and Vice President Pence here in Wisconsin next week. Stark contrast, strategically different decisions. And, by the way, Chuck, that plays well with both parties within their parties.

CHUCK TODD:

No, it is, you're right, in many ways. And, look, I wanted to get you in there on the convention. But, Kasie Hunt, I want to begin --before we get back to the convention with this Postal Service, and what's going to happen on Capitol Hill, and whether suddenly recess is over. I want to just show you how much this story has penetrated. These are not the biggest city markets in America. This isn't an East Coast bias story. Take a look at how much this Postal Service story is penetrating America.

[START TAPE]

REPORTER:

New sweeping changes to the U.S. Postal Service could mean a delay in getting your mail.

REPORTER: :

Some Montana communities are seeing their local USPS collection boxes disappear.

REPORTER:

The elimination of letter sorting machines is happening even here in the Lehigh Valley at the main mail hub.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

So, Kasie, the point there was to show that this is not some DR thing when it comes to the Postal Service.

KASIE HUNT:

This is something that is affecting so many Americans in their communities. This is something in a way like the virus that everyone is experiencing in their own specific way. And that makes it different from many of these other headline or chyron-driven stories or issues for President Trump. And it's gotten to the point where you have Congressman Jim Cooper. He's from Tennessee. Not a progressive fire breather by any stretch of the imagination. It's a pretty conservative with a small "C" district. And he's saying that they should drag Louis DeJoy, the postmaster general, before Congress and if he doesn't show up he should be arrested by the sergeant-at-arms. That's how bad it's gotten in some of these --

CHUCK TODD:

Wow.

KASIE HUNT:

-- communities. So I do think there is an open question now about whether the House will come back to do something about this. Nothing has been decided at this point, but I do think it's a possibility. And one thing I would say, Chuck, as we talk about this as a political issue: For the Biden campaign, I think they're thinking about this, yes, in terms of the mechanics, and whether seniors are getting their prescriptions in the mail, and all of those things. But they also see this as a concerted disinformation campaign to undermine American faith in our civic institutions and in the ability of our institutions to function correctly. And they see that as dangerous. And they want to make sure that Americans do believe that their mail will work, that they have ways to get their ballots in. Because they see this as part of the Trump campaign strategy to undermine faith in the election generally, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Jeh Johnson, probably the single most trusted government institution has been the U.S. Postal Service, going back decades. It does feel as if you undermine the Postal Service, you're undermining maybe among our most important threads of our democracy.

JEH JOHNSON:

That's correct, Chuck. I think the message to the American public has to be: Plan your vote. Think early about how you're going to vote. As soon as you get a ballot, return it in the mail. Because we don't quite know what's going to happen in the run-up to Election Day. I do know this. A properly resourced, mission-oriented agency of our government could do this, could move 100 million ballots in a couple days. Everybody likes to point out that absentee votes, absentee ballots are the same as mail-in ballots. Actually, it's very different because a mail-in ballot is a local act. If it works like it works here in New Jersey, I'm mailing a ballot from my home in Essex County to a Board of Election location very close by in Essex County. When they all show up, thousands of them, they have the same destination. So properly resourced, you could do this. And from what we're hearing, we lack the leadership in Washington to want to make that happen.

CHUCK TODD:

Carol Lee, the head scratcher on this politically is the idea that rural America is a big part of the president's base. And rural America views the Postal Service as an important lifeline.

CAROL LEE:

That's absolutely right, Chuck. And the president has said that he's not going to roll back or push to roll back any of these changes that the postmaster general has made that have caused some of the delays that we've seen. But I think there's a real question facing the president of whether or not he sticks to that. I spoke with a White House official yesterday who really wouldn't rule out that the president changes his positions on this and that he does try to in some way tamp down the political firestorm which is coming from both sides of the aisle, Democrats and Republicans. And there's a real concern that like his railing on mail-in voting generally, he risks suppressing his own and hurting his own interests and suppressing his own vote, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Very quickly, Charles Benson, this Postal Service story, how consuming is it to your viewers?

CHARLES BENSON:

Well, Chuck, we've had two elections already in Wisconsin during the pandemic, one last month, the other one in April, where there was more chaos, and confusion, and court challenges. And we already saw in real time concerns about ballots. Ballots that did not get to voters and then voters who were not able to get those ballots back. We had an unprecedented record number of absentee ballots, about a 1.1 million ballots in April. That number could be twice that in November. But having said that, starting around mid-September, those absentee ballots are going to go into the hands of Wisconsin voters, and they're going to have up to 45 days to vote.

CHUCK TODD:

Yeah. We'll see if they end up -- Kasie Hunt, very quickly, you covered Bernie Sanders in '16 very closely. What did you make? He really made it clear, "This is a detente and then November 4th, I'll be back."

KASIE HUNT:

He did, Chuck. I think it speaks to quite frankly President Biden's personal approach. I think he has extended some grace to Bernie Sanders that the Sanders campaign didn't feel that they were extended in the wake of the 2016 presidential primary and nominating contest. I think that's made a real difference. And I think he also feels like his policy positions are being heard out by the Biden campaign. But certainly, you know, they're willing to sing kumbaya for right now heading into the convention week. I'm not sure that will last much past an inauguration of a President Biden, but I guess we'll see, Chuck.

CHUCK TODD:

Well, he didn't say "inauguration," Kasie. He said "November 4th," which I thought was very interesting as well. Anyway, clearly he'll care about that transition --

KASIE HUNT:

Fair enough.

CHUCK TODD:

-- if there is a transition for Biden. Anyway, when we come back, the one big reason you can't count out President Trump's chances of winning reelection. Stay with us.

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. Data Download time. Our latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows good news for Democrats overall. But there are a few shining lights for President Trump if he can figure out how to capitalize on them. When it comes to a handling of a few key issues, Mr. Trump does hold an edge among registered voters on one big one. And the biggest is the economy. But he also leads on issues like crime and having the necessary mental and physical health for the presidency. But it's that ten-point edge on the economy which may represent the president's best chance to gain traction in this campaign. But of course, Biden has his own winning formula of issues. Voters in our poll believe he'd be better at bringing the country together, that he'd be better at handling race relations -- and perhaps the biggest -- dealing with the coronavirus. He has a 16-point edge over President Trump on that issue, larger than the president's lead over Biden on the economy. So which issues are actually the most important to voters this year? Here's what they told us. When we asked them to list the two or three they care about most when picking a president, a majority told us the economy is the number one issue on their minds as they make their choice. So, remember, that's an issue President Trump leads on by ten points. But on all the other top issues -- bringing the country together, strong leadership qualities, health care, and, yes, the coronavirus -- it is Biden who is leading Trump among those voters. So President Trump and his team are smart to argue that he's better equipped to guide an economic recovery. Traditionally, the economy trumps all other issues. But that may not be the case in a year when voters blame the president for doing a poor job in controlling a pandemic. When we come back, those fringe believers in the QAnon conspiracy theory: Are they really on the fringe anymore?

CHUCK TODD:

Welcome back. This week, we saw the rise of something called QAnon. If you're not familiar with it, for viewers, it is a really fringey conspiracy theory that sort of lumps all conspiracy theories together, claims some one weird deep state thing, one person's pulling the levers. It's very popular on the extreme right these days. And an adherent named Marjorie Taylor Greene won a Republican runoff in a Georgia congressional district. She is likely to end up in Congress as the first sort of known conspiracy theorist of this QAnon thing. Here's what the president had to say about her victory.

[BEGIN TAPE]

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

Well, she's done very well in the election. She won by a lot. She was very popular. She comes from a great state. And she had a tremendous victory. So absolutely, I did congratulate her. Please, go ahead.

REPORTER:

But specifically on QAnon and her decision to embrace that conspiracy theory. Do you agree with her on that? That was the question.

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

Go ahead. Go ahead.

[END TAPE]

CHUCK TODD:

Jeh Johnson, the president refused to ever answer that question. He's refused to answer that question millions of times. He's never said he believes in it, but he always seems to do a wink and a nod by not saying anything in either direction. How dangerous is this, is this QAnon? Is this a virus inside the Republican party?

JEH JOHNSON:

I'm afraid it could be, Chuck. Chuck, QAnon and movements like it gain currency because of the way in which Americans receive their news and receive their information on social media. Not enough organizations have standards, have journalistic standards, and people therefore are drawn to sources of information that reaffirm their own biases, their own prejudices, their own conspiracy theories. And that is the environment in which we live and in which Americans have to be much, much more skeptical about what they read and see. And that's how a group like this gains traction, to the point where somebody can win a primary.

CHUCK TODD:

Carol Lee, you've been doing a lot of reporting, whether it's on the Russian interference issue, which I just got into pretty, a back-and-forth with Ambassador O'Brien, or in this QAnon. You know, there is this perception that the administration, that even those that want to sound the alarm are afraid of sounding the alarm because it'll hurt the, it’ll upset the president, whether it's on Russian interference or QAnon.

CAROL LEE:

Right. And when it comes to QAnon, Chuck, you know, the president clearly sees this as something where he doesn't want to alienate any of his supporters. And it's worth noting that the president has retweeted and promoted multiple times things that QAnon supporters and believers have posted. So he's not just not denouncing this. In some ways, he's embracing it. And even one of his campaign aides criticized a Republican lawmaker for speaking out against QAnon, saying, you know, "Why don't you focus on Democrat conspiracy theories?" So this is another instance where people around the president and those that I have spoke to said that the president, you know, they don't want him to give oxygen to this, but at the same time, they think people have the right to be wrong. And so that's kind of the viewpoint from which they are coming at this. And there's a real reluctance to either challenge the president on this because he sees it as a political issue and something that he doesn't want to put his thumb on the scale on because it might hurt him in his election.

CHUCK TODD:

And, Kasie Hunt, it seems as if the leadership on the Republican side, they've had some words perhaps about Marjorie Taylor Greene, but not much else. And here’s what her -- her runoff opponent described her this way. This is what Dr. John Cowan, who was running as more of the mainstream conservative candidate, he described her this way, Kasie. "She's the antithesis of the Republican Party, and she is not conservative. She's crazy. She deserves a YouTube channel, not a seat in Congress. She's a circus act." Kevin McCarthy's going to welcome her in, apparently, and seat her on committees.

KASIE HUNT:

Well, and, Chuck, I think it's very important that we underscore here that this conspiracy theory A) is starting to move out of just the fringe. We've seen celebrities struggling to deal with it in their Instagram and Twitter comments. We have also seen a series of incidents in real life, many of which involve violence or the threat of violence, to the point that you have this FBI warning about these people. So I think it's very important when we talk about how we cover this, it is not just a matter of people being free to believe what they want in a political way or say what they want. This is leading to actual acts in real life that are threatening people and their livelihoods. And so I think that's what's at stake when we hear Republicans say, "Okay, fine. You know, come on in. Join the party." This is much more than that.

CHUCK TODD:

Right.

KASIE HUNT:

And there's responsibility that also goes to the social media companies where so much of this is percolating.

CHUCK TODD:

And, Charles, I know you said you have yet to come across this a lot in Wisconsin. And I think a lot of us hope that stays the case, given how kooky and crazy this is. But I apologize. We have to cut that short. I'm a little low on time. Before we go, quick programming note. Please join Lester Holt, Savannah Guthrie, Andrea Mitchell, and myself for the NBC News coverage of the Democratic National Convention. We'll have it Monday through Thursday every night on the network. We'll start at 10:00. And on streaming, we'll start at 8:00. That's all for today. Thank you for watching. Please keep safe. And we'll be back next week, getting ready for the Republican Convention. Because if it's Sunday, no matter where we are, it's Meet the Press.